***** Guitar Project Jigs, Tools & Techniques Online Resources Archives OLF Video Page Library of plans MP3 Library Inlay Class
Offical Luthiers Forum





And our community proudly sponsored by:

RC Tonewoods | Stewart MacDonald | LuthiersForum
TasmanianTonewoods | OLF | OLF MERCH
Luthier Suppliers | Pacific Coast Woods | ELEVATE
OLF X | Tasmanian Acoustic Tonewood | Luthiers Forum Store!
Luthiers Forum | OLF Facebook | AVAIL SPACE
OLF | Alaska Specialty Woods | A.Hix Tonewood
Duke of Pearl | Birkonium CNC | Space




Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Wed Jul 23, 2025 6:44 am


Board index » Forum Archive

All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 18 posts ] 
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
jerr6
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:39 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:36 pm
Posts: 69
Location: lockport ,il
so im in the middle of putting all my bracing on the board and noticed some gaps. like were the x braces notches are or on the tone bars tucking under the x brace. should i fill those gaps with something? titebond or some other glue? thanks for your help
Top
 Profile  
 
Steve Saville
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:45 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:32 pm
Posts: 1969
Location: United States
gaps in the x brace joint is not good. Those should be remade, do not fill. That is the most important joint on the guitar.
You don't need to tuck your tone bars under the X brace, so I wouldn't worry about that, but I'd like to see some pictures to understand better what you are talking about.

_________________
"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.
Top
 Profile  
 
Jim Watts
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:49 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 5:46 am
Posts: 2997
Location: United States
I'd remove the X and redo it like Steve said. You need a nice tight joint there.

_________________
Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com
Top
 Profile  
 
MSpencer
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:21 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:40 am
Posts: 1286
Location: United States
I agree with the other guys, tearout and redo

Mike
White Oak, Texas
Top
 Profile  
 
j.Brown
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:14 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:10 pm
Posts: 778
Location: Madison, WI
Yep. Think of the X-braces as the main arteries of your guitar top. The tighter they fit together and to the top, the better. Zero gaps. Gaps anywhere is usually not a good thing, but gaps in the X braces are probably unacceptable. Good luck.
-j.

_________________
“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy
Top
 Profile  
 
Shawn
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:58 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:19 pm
Posts: 1051
Location: United States
Also once you have a good tight x brace, dont forget to apply a patch over the top either of spruce (it can be really thin and still add strength or cloth as was the old school way of reinforcing the xbrace. Adding a piece on top restores most of the strength that was lost when the x brace notch was cut. It can be around 1/16 and still return alot of strength.
Top
 Profile  
 
jerr6
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:09 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:36 pm
Posts: 69
Location: lockport ,il

on the stew mac dvd that came with the kit it shows the 4 small braces and the 2 tone bars( i think thats what they are called) are to be fitted so they go under the x brace. by means of a 45 degree notch on the x brace and 45 dgree end on the brace going into the notch. so on my next guitar it would be ok to just butt the small braces up to the x brace? what about the bridge bace? butt jiont or fitted into x brace? shawn , what do you mean by a patch? a x shaped patch over the top of the jiont?
Top
 Profile  
 
jerr6
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:38 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:36 pm
Posts: 69
Location: lockport ,il
thanks for the tip on making the jiont. ill definately try it next time. it seems like there is less contact area of the jiont with the preshaped braces were as square ones would come in contact 100%. oh well just tryin to get the first guitar under my belt.


Top
 Profile  
 
old man
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:41 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:13 am
Posts: 3270
Location: United States
I still tuck my finger braces and tonebars in the other bracing, but not into the rim. May not be necessary, but lapped/tucked joints are stronger that butt joints.

Ron

_________________
OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......
Top
 Profile  
 
stan thomison
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:07 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:46 am
Posts: 1315
Location: Branson, MO
First name: stan
Last Name: thomison
City: branson
State: mo
Zip/Postal Code: 65616
Country: united states
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
don't know if the finger braces and tone bars are for strength, as far as join to hold guitar together, maybe wrong, but the butt join is way strong enough for the purpose they are for. Main thing is no gap in the X. Look ugly to when persons may inspect guitar for purchase if ever go that way. Sloppy looks won't work. it also defeats the some purpose of the lap join at X.
Top
 Profile  
 
jerr6
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:46 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:36 pm
Posts: 69
Location: lockport ,il

so the x brace and upper brace are the only ones who get tucked into the kerfing? and the other ends of the braces get shaved down to nothing right?
Top
 Profile  
 
stan thomison
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:04 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:46 am
Posts: 1315
Location: Branson, MO
First name: stan
Last Name: thomison
City: branson
State: mo
Zip/Postal Code: 65616
Country: united states
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
One and maybe for me anyway only reason I tuck the lower leg of X is it helps me when do it tight and right to help me with location and when gluing the top, things stay in line and not slide around for center of front or rear. I just do that for helping myself keeping things lined and square. I would never argue for or agains for tone, strength or any of that because tell truth, I don't know if it matters, may or may not.
Top
 Profile  
 
Martin Turner
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:39 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:21 pm
Posts: 1055
Location: Australia
[QUOTE=jerr6] so on my next guitar it would be ok to just butt the small braces up to the x brace? what about the bridge bace? butt jiont or fitted into x brace? [/QUOTE]

I butt my finger braces and tone bars against the X brace and then I wick a bit of superglue in between to reduce chances of buzzing. On top of the X brace joint I gule on a 2-3mm thick patch and then round off edges of same to make it look tidy.
Top
 Profile  
 
JohnAbercrombie
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:57 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:50 pm
Posts: 2711
Location: Victoria, BC
First name: John
Last Name: Abercrombie
Status: Amateur
Just for interest's sake-
I've started a new topic on the need for a good X-brace joint, since I don't agree that it's that critical.

Let's see what the experts say!

Cheers

John


Top
 Profile  
 
KenH
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:01 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:15 pm
Posts: 2302
Location: Florida



Just for the record, I agree that the tone bars do not need to be tucked under the x-brace, but I do try to get them to touch the x-brace with a good mitered brace. (to make a clean look) I also trim them so that the angle of the end of the tone bar is the same as the angle it meets the x-brace so that there is no gap. This is done more for appearance than for anything else. I also try to have the bridge plate touch the x-brace. When I glue the bridge plate onto the underside of the top, I do it with a radiused caul that is cut to the exact same size as the bridge plate.


As far as the actual x-brace main joint, I personally think this is the most important joint in the guitar to have a good tight joint. This is not so much for strength, but for vibration purposes. I personally do not use any cloth cover over that joint.


just my $.02  worth


_________________
Reguards,

Ken H
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 18 posts ] 

Board index » Forum Archive

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com